Lee. i might be wrong but I do not think so. There is no way I am aware of that the state can hold you for more than 48 hrs or less without being charged. I would bet that everyone of those 15 ARE charged and are on pre-trial detention status... NOT pre-charged. I am more than willing to concede the argument if they are being helf with no charges BUT that's what habeus corpus prevents!/ I dont think u are juvenile. I think playing whatbaout is and I while I am aware of our differences I know as you as thoughtful and sincere and compassionate guy. The simple question was, HOW are they being abused. You have given an answer. I think your facts are wrong. Our mone are. But unless the constitution was changed I am unaware how a someone can be detained indefinitely with no charges pending.
I confess to not paying attention to our discussion's having been about these 15 cases ... and also to not having paid close attention to other details. I have been operating under the impression that several score of the 1200+ arrested for their part in the "insurrection" on January 6 remained incarcerated, not counting those who have been convicted of or have pled guilty to crimes and are serving their sentences. Looking it up just now, I see there are far fewer, about two and a half dozen, that fall into that category or one close to it (awaiting trial). Arrests are still being made, I know, because they continue to show up now and then in the local daily news here ... but I have been going by a lot of what now clearly look to be wildly inaccurate numbers based on the less than reliable source of morning coffee conversation at my favorite local cafe. So the violations of Sixth Amendment protections I was exercised about were or are largely if not wholly fictional.
So if you deem the accused to be "violent criminals, thugs and the mentally deranged", then fuck the Sixth Amendment ... that sums up your views on the right to a speedy trial? Maybe their cases will come to trial this side of the Greek Kalends but who cares?" ... because, after all, they are "Trumpanzees" ... not "mostly peaceful protesters" like those who burned down whole neighborhoods in Minneapolis and other cities during the six or seven months before January 6 and who were never arrested or charged with any crime.
The right to a speedy trial is strictly in the hands of the accused. If they are languishing in jail, then that is because THEY waived that right. And damn right they are Trumpanzees. Chimpanzees do not go out to beaty up cops and shit on the Capitol floor. Let me add: I fully understand that I am being scornful of Trump supporters. That's my intention. I am all out of giving fucks about anybody who after 8 years cannot figure out this guy is a deranged and dangerous con man. Yes, people have real problems in life...for sure. One of those problems is being a fucking moron. Further.... I am not about to play a juvenile game of Whataboutism with you. No question that many of the BLM protesters were violent and should have been held accountable and were not.. I challenge you to find a single word I have written to the contrary. So WHy resort to this silly juvenile whatabout crap? I want to know what YOU really think about Trump defending these assholes as hostages? That's the question on the table. It's not, oh, has there ever been cases of liberals rather than Trumpies who have been held unaccountable. Of course. Now, what's your view on the "hostages?" Are they being mistreated or tortured or illegally held?
My view is that their rights have been abused and denied. Persons whose notions and actions you scorn have the same rights as those whose ideas you share. This would not be difficult for you to see if you did not have your head up your ass, Marc.
You are eluding my question. Drop the as hominem and plse tell me how the rights of those 15 are being violated? How are they being abused? Stop accusing me of things i fo not believe and answer the simple question before you. Or r u now among those who no longer believe in cash bail and you now deny the right of judges to suspend bail when a defendant is found unsafe or a flight risk? And to those already convivted for jan6 should Trump pardon them? And on what basis?
First off, you began the ad hominem insults, calling me juvenile, etc. I'm not evading anything. I think anyone who the evidence indicates committed felonies on Jan 6 deserves to be arrested, charged and tried for such crimes. But some of those arrested have yet to be charged ... and it has been three years. Being held in pretrial detention for three years without any charges filed is a gross violation of constitutional rights. Haven't I already said this? Was it not implied by my reference to the Sixth Amendment at the get-go? Under our system it's not okay to deny the rights of those accused of crimes because someone deems them to be dirt bags (which in this case many of them doubtless are). No, I don't think they are "hostages." No, I don't think they should be pardoned. Just what simple question is it that you're accusing me of avoiding? Because I am not purposely avoiding anything. I believe in the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, and I believe everyone has been endowed with those rights, including criminals. You tell me not to accuse you of believing things you don't believe in the same breath that you ask me if I'm opposed to cash bail. This is a silly exchange. It's silly IMO because your understandable loathing of Trump (who I also loathe) and his brainless and otherwise execrable groupies has led you to take positions and make references that are incongruent with your longstanding, impressive intellectual and ethical mastery.
It is impossible Lee in the US to jail anybody for more than a day ot two with no charges. I am sure everyone of those 15 being held without bail have been charged and have been charged with violent crimes that prevented them fron getting bailed out.
Sorry, I missed the part where reports indicated that of any the BLM protesters attempted to overthrow the heart of our democracy in an attempt to stop the certification of a free and fair election.
Lee. i might be wrong but I do not think so. There is no way I am aware of that the state can hold you for more than 48 hrs or less without being charged. I would bet that everyone of those 15 ARE charged and are on pre-trial detention status... NOT pre-charged. I am more than willing to concede the argument if they are being helf with no charges BUT that's what habeus corpus prevents!/ I dont think u are juvenile. I think playing whatbaout is and I while I am aware of our differences I know as you as thoughtful and sincere and compassionate guy. The simple question was, HOW are they being abused. You have given an answer. I think your facts are wrong. Our mone are. But unless the constitution was changed I am unaware how a someone can be detained indefinitely with no charges pending.
I confess to not paying attention to our discussion's having been about these 15 cases ... and also to not having paid close attention to other details. I have been operating under the impression that several score of the 1200+ arrested for their part in the "insurrection" on January 6 remained incarcerated, not counting those who have been convicted of or have pled guilty to crimes and are serving their sentences. Looking it up just now, I see there are far fewer, about two and a half dozen, that fall into that category or one close to it (awaiting trial). Arrests are still being made, I know, because they continue to show up now and then in the local daily news here ... but I have been going by a lot of what now clearly look to be wildly inaccurate numbers based on the less than reliable source of morning coffee conversation at my favorite local cafe. So the violations of Sixth Amendment protections I was exercised about were or are largely if not wholly fictional.
I have run this confession by the Central Committee and they have ruled to absolve you!
LOL
So if you deem the accused to be "violent criminals, thugs and the mentally deranged", then fuck the Sixth Amendment ... that sums up your views on the right to a speedy trial? Maybe their cases will come to trial this side of the Greek Kalends but who cares?" ... because, after all, they are "Trumpanzees" ... not "mostly peaceful protesters" like those who burned down whole neighborhoods in Minneapolis and other cities during the six or seven months before January 6 and who were never arrested or charged with any crime.
The right to a speedy trial is strictly in the hands of the accused. If they are languishing in jail, then that is because THEY waived that right. And damn right they are Trumpanzees. Chimpanzees do not go out to beaty up cops and shit on the Capitol floor. Let me add: I fully understand that I am being scornful of Trump supporters. That's my intention. I am all out of giving fucks about anybody who after 8 years cannot figure out this guy is a deranged and dangerous con man. Yes, people have real problems in life...for sure. One of those problems is being a fucking moron. Further.... I am not about to play a juvenile game of Whataboutism with you. No question that many of the BLM protesters were violent and should have been held accountable and were not.. I challenge you to find a single word I have written to the contrary. So WHy resort to this silly juvenile whatabout crap? I want to know what YOU really think about Trump defending these assholes as hostages? That's the question on the table. It's not, oh, has there ever been cases of liberals rather than Trumpies who have been held unaccountable. Of course. Now, what's your view on the "hostages?" Are they being mistreated or tortured or illegally held?
My view is that their rights have been abused and denied. Persons whose notions and actions you scorn have the same rights as those whose ideas you share. This would not be difficult for you to see if you did not have your head up your ass, Marc.
You are eluding my question. Drop the as hominem and plse tell me how the rights of those 15 are being violated? How are they being abused? Stop accusing me of things i fo not believe and answer the simple question before you. Or r u now among those who no longer believe in cash bail and you now deny the right of judges to suspend bail when a defendant is found unsafe or a flight risk? And to those already convivted for jan6 should Trump pardon them? And on what basis?
First off, you began the ad hominem insults, calling me juvenile, etc. I'm not evading anything. I think anyone who the evidence indicates committed felonies on Jan 6 deserves to be arrested, charged and tried for such crimes. But some of those arrested have yet to be charged ... and it has been three years. Being held in pretrial detention for three years without any charges filed is a gross violation of constitutional rights. Haven't I already said this? Was it not implied by my reference to the Sixth Amendment at the get-go? Under our system it's not okay to deny the rights of those accused of crimes because someone deems them to be dirt bags (which in this case many of them doubtless are). No, I don't think they are "hostages." No, I don't think they should be pardoned. Just what simple question is it that you're accusing me of avoiding? Because I am not purposely avoiding anything. I believe in the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, and I believe everyone has been endowed with those rights, including criminals. You tell me not to accuse you of believing things you don't believe in the same breath that you ask me if I'm opposed to cash bail. This is a silly exchange. It's silly IMO because your understandable loathing of Trump (who I also loathe) and his brainless and otherwise execrable groupies has led you to take positions and make references that are incongruent with your longstanding, impressive intellectual and ethical mastery.
It is impossible Lee in the US to jail anybody for more than a day ot two with no charges. I am sure everyone of those 15 being held without bail have been charged and have been charged with violent crimes that prevented them fron getting bailed out.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/why-capitol-riot-defendants-being-held-without-bond-before-trial-january-6-congress/65-1e4d4dd6-eded-4187-85f1-d4dfcc3a9519
Sorry, I missed the part where reports indicated that of any the BLM protesters attempted to overthrow the heart of our democracy in an attempt to stop the certification of a free and fair election.